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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 18:40 
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Oh mah gawd that's amazing.

As for the Mandarin...

...I don't have a problem with Ben Kingsley's fake out character given that a trick of that sort is not so surprising a tactic for somebody who actually IS the Mandarin. It's a post-modern Mandarin tactic--the brutal application of Xanatos puzzle logic that the Mandarin is known for using elements from a terrorism-defined sociopolitical environment. So if you change your perspective of "The Mandarain was fake! He doesn't actually exist! They ruined the Mandarin!" to "Aldrich Killian was the REAL Mandarin, and orchestrated this entire plan! The other's a smokescreen!" I'm good with it.

What I had a problem with was the mish-mashy treatment of what are very different story arcs and very core elements of setting infrastructure. I mean for the average person walking in off the street who knows nothing about Marvel I guess it makes no-nevermind, but for someone who knows ANYTHING about Marvel at ALL it's actually really confusing. I mean, if FuturePharm/Killian and AIM/Strucker are being given unto Stark's baggage, then where's all that HYDRA tech that supported the Red Skull in the 30s coming from? Who's going to be fighting the Hulk? I dunno about you guys, but my era of comic-bookery had AIM being very much an Incredible Hulk thing. And the whole thing just sort of gives Maya Hansen the shaft. She's a great character and it's true she got some development in the film but I don't feel like it had any of the depth she had in the comics, which was quite a lot. When you lost Maya in the comics you FELT it. In the film it was more like a "D'aw, I liked her."

I also feel like the brushing over of Extremis getting into AIM hands was a bit of a faux pas. I mean, in the comics, when people get bad Extremis and went bio-bombing around the globe it took a LONG TIME to get wrapped up because AIM was so splintered and leaked information like a sieve. I guess they sort of solved that in the film by shunting it into one horrendous mutant supermonster organisation with Killian's FuturePharm, which was much more centralised and secure, and I'll buy that solution...until you get to that thing I said earlier about there now being this gap in the setting. AIM is sort of a big deal in the Marvelverse, and the cinemaverse is sort of cutting off some direct paths to a lot of things by removing them from that capacity. I'm sure they can work around it but it'll further complicate and tangle things that otherwise would have worked just fine as is.

That said, I'm very positively inclined to the director/writer/producers' attitudes toward playing around with these elements and letting things in this Marvel alternate 'verse evolve along its own lines. They aren't necessarily the lines I personally would choose to follow, but the films are still good, and that's because the people heading up these projects aren't unnecessarily burdening themselves with trying to keep inside all the pre-drawn lines. I mean, let's be honest, some of those comic arcs do kinda suck, and if the cinema versions are able to wiggle around and hand pick all the best pieces and put them into one comprehensive BETTER whole...all the more power to them. I just hope they don't go TOO crazy with that ability. It's a bit of a balancing act of doing that without going haywire so that you don't recognise the things you like anymore.

EDIT:
I haven't investigated: ARE we getting a Hulk sequel with Ruffalo in it? I'm shocked at myself but I find myself actually caring a lot.



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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 18:49 
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xD Nice pic, love it.

Yeah, this is where my knowledge of the marvelverse kinda shows its flaws in that I don't know much about AIM, or the Hulk's side of things at all, really xD; I can see where you're going with this though, if they cut out any big names in the 'verse then they've also lost a lot of opportunities, no matter who it is. I guess it helps the new cinemaverse-fans wrap their heads around things to consolidate them though, which is a nice bonus for some. I'm not sure how I feel about it completely, but generally, they're doing a good job so far, so I can't really be annoyed at it at all xD

From what little I know, I think that they're gonna try and do a Hulk reboot, which sounds good to me. I'm getting quite invested in a Hulk film with some damned attention paid to it myself, and Ruffalo is a very good choice for the role. I heard tell of another reboot along the same lines, but can't for the life of me remember who it was... I think Iron man was mentioned, but that makes no sense to me now, unless they're pulling for a memorable replacement of Robert Downey Jr. in film or something? I'll see if I can chase up the dude who was talking about it when I can.


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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 18:52 
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Well how can they reboot Hulk in the middle of an ongoing Avengers series of events?

I think I mentioned in this thread that I'm pretty sure Avengers will at least be a Trilogy, and I'm going to stick to that, since there's no room in A2 for Ultron and Thanos to be major, evident antagonists. So Thanos will still need to be handled.



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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 19:00 
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Yeah, something I'm curious about as well. I reckon they're gonna have something of an in-between film, like Thor's Dark World or something. Less of a reboot, and more of an embellishment of the character, something that'll let them give a better sense of who Avengers!Hulk is against the two earlier Hulk films. Would be nice to see in any and all cases, and also gives them somewhere to bring in some Hulk villains for some screentime that could be important later.

I'm with you on that one. They're gearing up for Thanos big time, and I'm damned certain that he'll get his own film. Guardians will most likely advance that plot quite a bit, and then Age of Ultron will probably contribute even more. If there's one thing to be said about Thanos, it's that he's pretty damned inevitable, so they're likely to pull a lot of weight around his impending happening. This is gonna be awesome :D

Speaking of reboots, apparently there was going to be a series of Xmen: Origins movies popping up at some point. I think they ran out of funding for the idea after Wolverine, or somewhere between concept and filming of it at least, but it seems that and Origin movie was planned for quite a few big names. Gambit and Storm were notables, alongside Beast (this was before First Class happened to the 'verse) and, I think, Iceman too. Would have been cool to see, but I reckon they might give that another shot now that Futures Past has happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 19:16 
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So yeah I did some checking while you were typing that post. My having not seen Winter Soldier put me in a bit of foot-in-mouth position, since apparently Strucker is involved with something. Having not seen WS yet I'm going to guess he's continuing Hydra from the Red Skull? Seems like a logical plot transposition. APPARENTLY he is set to appear in A2, which is sort of intriguing.

Also read this:
Quote:
Additionally, Cobie Smulders, Don Cheadle, Hayley Atwell, Thomas Kretschmann, and Josh Brolin reprise their roles from previous MCU films as Maria Hill, Col. James "Rhodey" Rhodes, Peggy Carter, Baron Wolfgang von Strucker, and Thanos, respectively.[30][31][32][33][34] Paul Bettany, who voiced J.A.R.V.I.S. in previous films, plays the Vision,[35] and Claudia Kim was cast as a doctor/scientist and friend of Tony Stark.[36][37] Andy Serkis is playing an undisclosed role in the film.[6]
So we have a JARVIS/Vision confirmation. That seems like it's extremely noteworthy.

Of course, broaching the subject of X-Men...I mean Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are going to be A2, that's not been a secret. I don't see how they can avoid the two franchises colliding sooner or later.

Doesn't Professor X have some sort of history with Thanos? Admittedly my Marvel knowledge is being a bit taxed as well.

And on the subject of a Hulk sequel, apparently The Leader is the pick for antagonist. Personally I'm SO down for that. I actually really like the Leader. I particularly liked his role in the "Fall of the Hulks" storyline, where he gathered up a bunch of B and C -list supervillains and moulded them into a force that actually mattered. It was a compelling and heady mix of Affably Evil with an aggressive agenda fuelled by genuine enthusiasm for building a world he thinks he can run better than the current mess it is and a callous use of people as disposable tools. It was a really awesome character builder story for him, and you find yourself really sympathising with him and wanting him to succeed at times. Honestly if the vision of the future that's presented to him is what he actually was striving for then the world may not be that bad a place with him as Grand Ruler of the Western Hemisphere.



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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 19:38 
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Yeah, I think that Strucker's pushing for Hydra big time. He's also especially involved with the AV'verse's Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, but I'll not go into how here. You need to watch WS :P

I think they're likely to sell the two off as something not quite-mutant, but close. Apparently 20th Century Fox owns the rights to Marvel's entire 'Mutant' dealie, so that's problematic. No crossovers at all due to that. I don't know if Prof X and Thanos even came across one another, but it could have happened... maybe something to do with Onslaught? (If you haven't come across that dude before, he's well worth looking up) In any case, we're not likely to see anything with the two of them ever happening in film.

The Leader seems pretty cool, I'd love to see something with him as the main villain, would really be an interesting plot, if done right xD


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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 19:52 
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Well yeah, Onslaught.

How can you really have Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch without mutants though? I mean they're blatantly and abundantly Magneto's kids.



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 Post subject: Re: Avengers 2
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2014, 20:34 
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Well, one line that Strucker uses is something along the lines of 'Now begins the age of Miracles', possibly in reference to the two of them. There's some context of having a certain power to play with involved, so maybe they're gonna work with 'Strucker created them', or something? There's plenty of other ways for the Marvel 'verse to spawn new supers, I reckon


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