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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2013, 10:58 
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Link.

Discuss.

Spoiler: show
THANK YOU ALMIGHTY GOD OF SCI-FI WE'RE FINALLY GETTING AN OLDER ONE AGAIN


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2013, 11:38 
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I thought the same thing.

Spoiler: show
We've had two young Doctors who in some ways were quite similar. I felt it was time to go with someone different and more mature. I'm also pleased they've stuck with a male Doctor, despite theorising to the contrary by some people. In most franchises where a new lead character is being brought in I don't normally care what gender that person is, but the Doctor has such a long history as a male that I think I'd find it hard to relate to him in quite the same way if he were to change gender.

I don't know Peter Capaldi well enough as an actor to be able to judge what sort of a job he'll make of the role, but just from looking at him (and with the knowledge that he has already had some experience in the Doctor Who world), I'm hopeful.



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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2013, 12:05 
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Spoiler: show
Yeah, I am very glad they stuck with a male Doctor. I don't quite know how to parse it, but...I guess...the show recently, particularly under Moffat, seems to take the viewpoint that gender and sexuality don't really matter, and in the future no one will care about them either way. Which is a nice tolerant message, but it doesn't quite sit well with me, because gender and sexuality are a big part of someone's identity, and acting like they're just window dressing irks me. To me, an enlightened future would be one where everyone can be as gay or straight or male or female or some combination or none of the above as they want. The Doctor's been male for all of his considerably long life; presumably he identifies as male, and the suggestion that regenerating as a woman will have no more consequences than needing to get some new underwear aggravates me.

I've heard a lot of people say that a female Doctor would be a good role model for girls, which baffles me. If you want a role model for girls, WRITE A FEMALE CHARACTER. Don't just slap a Belt of Gender-Changing on a male one and call it a day. Hell, if you're so hellbent on having positive female role models in Doctor Who, let's start with having some female companions who are capable of relating to the Doctor in a way that doesn't involve wanting to get in his pants. Baby steps, guys. Anyway, the idea that the Doctor is currently exclusively a role model for boys is ridiculous. If you want to have someone who's committed genocide twice really be a role model, then what he is a role model for nerds and people who don't fit in; gender has nothing to do with it in this case.

Also, we have enough trouble with pronouns in this show already.


/rant

Spoiler: show
I don't know anything about Peter Capaldi, but I've been wanting to see an older Doctor for a while now. I mean, I don't dislike Eleven, exactly, but he's always felt too close in character to Ten to me. Ten was my first and favorite Doctor, but I didn't want to see an ersatz repeat of him. The Doctors in the past have always differed dramatically from their previous incarnation, and that's the way it should be. I don't know this, but I'm hoping that having an older Doctor will be a bit slower and less prone to manic ADHD, because the show's recent tendency towards shouty hyperbole has been one of the things that's turned me off of it lately.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013, 00:45 
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(sorry for the doublepost, but no one else was saying anything)

Any thoughts on how this might affect the companions? A more physically obvious age gap seems like it would change the way they relate to the Doctor, especially given the recent trend towards this relationship almost exclusively being a one-sidedly romantic one. I don't imagine them going back to the old method of adding a strong young male companion to do the heavy lifting, but I suppose they might.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013, 05:25 
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Given the popularity of Rory, they might be tempted to try adding a male companion again.



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PostPosted: 08 Aug 2013, 14:35 
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Spoiler: show
I'm okay with them not making the next Doctor female, but what irks me about the suggestion, other than what Rachel mentioned, is that THERE ARE STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS IN THE SHOW ALREADY. Ignoring them because they aren't the head character is... not helpful toward your cause.



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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2013, 01:00 
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Bah, the thing with the "strong female characters already exist" line of logic is that while it's entirely true, the fact is that the "strong female characters" are heavily white-washed because of how similar they are to each other.

Oswin: Spunky Scrapper Girl (happens to have a huge part of reality revolve around her by inserting herself in the situation)
Amy: Spunky Scrapper Girl ("the most important girl in the history of the universe"; "your life doesnt' make anyyyy seeeeense")
Donna: Impertinent Scrapper Woman (Meta-crisis superheroine who saves reality)
Rose: Whiney Wannabe Scrapper Girl (Time Vortex Superheroine who saves reality)

And yes I know I'm oversimplifying that by several orders of magnitude, but at the end of the day that's the impression I get of each one. They all feel the same to me and i'm tired of "spunky female companions". That's why I liked Martha and Rory so much.



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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2013, 01:23 
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I actually rather liked Donna, up until the last two episodes where everything went terribly wrong. I thought she was terribly annoying at first, but she grew on me when I went back and watched Season 4 in a non-SyFy related capacity. She felt less overwrought than a lot of the other New Who female companions-she had obvious faults, but she was also smart and adventurous in unconventional ways without the show bellowing "OH MY GOD YOU'RE SO SMART AND ADVENTUROUS AND UNCONVENTIONAL!" every time she did anything. And the way she and the Doctor bounced off one another felt more sincere and even, rather than being wrought with angst and uncertainty. They actually did seem like friends.

Otherwise, I fully agree. The tendency towards Spunky Action Girl companions has been steadily getting under my skin more and more over the course of the new series. There's nothing wrong with having action-y female companions in and of itself. Ace was an action girl. But Ace put her money where her mouth was and beat up a Dalek with a baseball bat. The New Who SFCs mostly just show up and we're told that they're so awesome the Doctor has never met anyone like them ohmigawd. This is annoying enough itself, but the cumulative effect is to make it seem that the Doctor only has time for smartass gung-ho chicks. I'd like to see a companion who's shy or awkward or just introverted. And I don't say that only because I am shy and awkward and introverted. I'd just like some variety here. That they are all pretty young white British girls from the early 21st century isn't helping matters.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2013, 01:30 
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Kroton for Twelfth Doctor's Companion!
We can['t] do it!



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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2013, 04:49 
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I want a dark and twisted doctor who maybe doesn't have the cleanest of mouths perhaps? As unlikely as it might be. I KNOW based on Peter Capaldi's previous roles he could do it easy. I want my doctor to be Jaded as hell. Have the pain and darkness of the doctors life poured into him.
And over the course of his story He can finally grow into a better doctor while facing the pain of his many MANY years. Centuries even. of loss and pain. I wanna see him finally vent that all out.
I want to see the centuries of pain finally catch up with him. And him direct it outward. to lash out. ultimately as a cry for help.
And I don't mean as a cumulative episode but as a doctor wrestling more actively with his own personal demons.


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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2013, 05:40 
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Given the early evening time-slot of the show (over here, at least), not having the cleanest of mouths simply isn't going to happen (Sam and I were discussing it and you've voiced his preferences exactly). But, from what little I've learnt of Peter Capaldi, it does make me wonder if they want to go for a darker Doctor. Which would please me greatly - if they can pull it off. What drew me so much to Christopher Eccleston was that he was a darker, grittier Doctor, and I lamented the fact that he only stayed for one season. Unfortunately, I have my doubts about Moffatt's ability to write and maintain a convincing darker mood - though I do very much like your idea of the Doctor wrestling with his own inner demons.

As for companions, like Rachel, I initially disliked Donna but she grew on me, but like Ethan I'm fed up with the companions in recent years all being so similar. (It also bugged me that, until Amy, they all had similar accents too - the Doctor travels all over space and time and yet he picked up three companions in quick succession who were all working class Londoners. Yes, even Martha - she may be a doctor, but her accent indicates she's from a working class background.) I'm with Rachel in thinking it'd be good to see a shy companion. It'd provide a great opportunity for some character development too to see a shy girl (or boy, but main companions have always been female) gradually coming to terms with living and working with the Doctor and beginning to build a bit more confidence in some situations as she gets to understand the TARDIS and the Doctor's modus operandi.



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PostPosted: 10 Aug 2013, 08:43 
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Avittion wrote:
I want a dark and twisted doctor who maybe doesn't have the cleanest of mouths perhaps? As unlikely as it might be. I KNOW based on Peter Capaldi's previous roles he could do it easy. I want my doctor to be Jaded as hell. Have the pain and darkness of the doctors life poured into him.
And over the course of his story He can finally grow into a better doctor while facing the pain of his many MANY years. Centuries even. of loss and pain. I wanna see him finally vent that all out.
I want to see the centuries of pain finally catch up with him. And him direct it outward. to lash out. ultimately as a cry for help.
And I don't mean as a cumulative episode but as a doctor wrestling more actively with his own personal demons.
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You just didn't get to see much of it on TV.



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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2013, 12:33 
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I for one don't want to see a 'dark' Doctor, and not just because it's that line of thinking that led to Six. As Zeth has pointed out, we've already been there, and Eccleston did such a fantastic job with the role that rehashing that ground would be a mistake.

The thing that I really liked about Nine and Eccleston's performance of him was how, well, 'real' might not be a good word in this context, but let's say real. His character was based around this sense of being a man who had been dragged into a horrible-beyond-words situation and had been forced to do horrible things that betrayed not just his principles but his very sense of self, an experience that had scarred him down to his core. And that is a real thing. It happens to real people. Sure, not usually on the scale of what happened to the Doctor, but at its center it was a real idea. That made him relatable, and understandable. Yeah, they also emphasized his fantastical elements, the nature of being a 1000 year old alien with senses we can't even comprehend, but those bits were woven in at the edges rather than being the central focus. What it resulted in was a character who was undeniably alien yet going through an extremely real and human experience.

After Nine, the show started drifting towards emphasizing the alien aspects instead, and that's where they started to lose me. Now, I'm all for exploring alienness. I love good xenofiction. But there's such a thing as 'show, don't tell'. Over the past few years of the show, we've been told over and over again how the Doctor suffers from the darkness in his past. How he mourns for his short-lived companions. How much he hates himself. It goes on and on and on. It's tiresome. And it annoys me. Yeah, have those elements there if you want, I'm not saying they're fundamentally wrong-but they should be something for the viewers to quietly notice, rather than clobbering them over the head with it. It doesn't at all help that the writers have felt the need to amp up the drama and tragedy constantly. It's not enough anymore to have a quietly sad parting between two good friends who have to go their separate ways-now we have to have them howling in grief as they're torn from one another in the most contrived way possible.

I think intentionally making the Doctor darker is only going to take us further down the road we've already been on far too long for my liking-the road of having the show itself tell us all the stuff that we already know about the Doctor. He's amazing and ancient and mysterious and terrible and very, very important, the characters shout at us. Yeah, we know that. We've watched the show. In the commentary for Blink, Steven Moffat talks about how, when Sally first sees the Doctor on the DVDs, the viewer is nodding and going, "Ah-ha, yeah. We know that guy. That's the Doctor. Stuff is about to get weird for you." It creates a moment of shared understanding between the show and the viewers, a sense of being in the know, and it's such an excellent point I have no idea why he decided to throw that to the wind when he took over. For 26 years the original show as perfectly capable of making sure we all knew how interesting and mysterious and important the Doctor was, just by having him show up and do what he does. Yeah, they also pasted question marks all over everything, I'm not saying they were perfect. But now, it seems like nothing can happen without the show breaking out the trumpets and going "HERE COMES THE DOCTOR, HE'S SO AWESOME YES HE IS". And every time the show talks about how much suffering the Doctor has been through, how tormented he is by his past and his inner demons, the atmosphere gets more and more like a moody fanfic.

More than anything else, I want the new Doctor to be what he was from the beginning-the mysterious drifter who showed up, saved the day, and left, leaving all the guest characters going, "What the hell even just happened?"

And no, he's not going to swear. Even if the show could get away with it, it's not really in his character. He's too erudite for that.


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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2013, 19:57 
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Like I said before he took over: Moffat is the perfect Lancer, but a terrible point man.



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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2013, 13:57 
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Zeth wrote:
Bah, the thing with the "strong female characters already exist" line of logic is that while it's entirely true, the fact is that the "strong female characters" are heavily white-washed because of how similar they are to each other.

Oswin: Spunky Scrapper Girl (happens to have a huge part of reality revolve around her by inserting herself in the situation)
Amy: Spunky Scrapper Girl ("the most important girl in the history of the universe"; "your life doesnt' make anyyyy seeeeense")
Donna: Impertinent Scrapper Woman (Meta-crisis superheroine who saves reality)
Rose: Whiney Wannabe Scrapper Girl (Time Vortex Superheroine who saves reality)

And yes I know I'm oversimplifying that by several orders of magnitude, but at the end of the day that's the impression I get of each one. They all feel the same to me and i'm tired of "spunky female companions". That's why I liked Martha and Rory so much.


I can feel that. But the problem is I'm not sure Moffat really knows how to write any other female roles... well, anyway. For Doctor Who, that's the best we can hope for, unless they get someone on the team that can really help out with fleshing out some of the other characters.



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PostPosted: 17 Aug 2013, 21:13 
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Medusa wrote:
I can feel that. But the problem is I'm not sure Moffat really knows how to write any other female roles... well, anyway. For Doctor Who, that's the best we can hope for, unless they get someone on the team that can really help out with fleshing out some of the other characters.
QFT



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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 19:50 
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I got some updated info so I'll post it here:

Steven Moffat offers a few intriguing titbits on Twelfth Doctor Peter Capaldi in the latest issue of Doctor Who Magazine (#464). Here’s some highlights:

Moffat is pretty certain Capaldi will keep his native Scottish accent for the role
At the moment, they’ve only discussed Twelve’s costume in the lightest terms
Moffat wanted to flip the switch the other way after having two youthful and accessible Doctors in a row
He’s going to be an older, trickier and fiercer Doctor
“Just as Clara’s learning to have a proper old crush on him, suddenly he’s Malcolm Tucker!”
Moffat thinks it’ll be fun seeing Clara cope with the Doctor being completely different…
…”I think the fun story will be – and we have the opportunity here – is this is what regeneration can do to you. He can be very, very different.”
“People really love Jenna, so we make the Doctor quite difficult…”
…Moffat likens the situation to Tom Baker’s first season: “He’s really quite difficult to take at the beginning, and you’re very grateful that Sarah and the Brigadier are there to reassure you.”

this is also a report on things he let slip at an AdLib event in Edinburgh wednesday: http://www.hypable.com/2013/08/22/detai ... irtatious/


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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2013, 21:08 
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I'm curious about the comparison to Tom Baker. What made Four different from the other Doctors was how consciously alien he was; Baker would choose to act in ways that didn't quite fit the situation because he thought an alien should be, well, alien. Little things, like showing the opposite emotion you would expect, although granted an undefinable portion of that was just being a smartass. ("Gentlemen, I have excellent news! This lighthouse is under attack and by morning we shall all be dead!") That would be an interesting direction for them to go in, since the alien-ness of the Doctor has been more informed and less shown of late (but don't worry, I won't go on another rant about it.) I just hope they don't make him act like an ass for the sake of it, since that's really only a different form of being quirky for the sake of it. And I really, really, really, please for the love of Sheogorath hope they don't force another Rose-style "omg I loved him and now he's different how could he do this to meeeeeeee" plot on us again.

Also I initially read 'Malcolm Tucker' as 'Malcolm Reynolds', which changed the implications of that sentence quite a bit.


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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2013, 14:03 
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Avittion wrote:
He’s going to be an older, trickier and fiercer Doctor
…”I think the fun story will be – and we have the opportunity here – is this is what regeneration can do to you. He can be very, very different.”
“People really love Jenna, so we make the Doctor quite difficult…”
…Moffat likens the situation to Tom Baker’s first season: “He’s really quite difficult to take at the beginning, and you’re very grateful that Sarah and the Brigadier are there to reassure you.”
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Calling it now.

Actually I called it approximately three years ago. Haven't been proven wrong yet. :zeth:



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