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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 21 May 2010, 15:08 
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I saw huge parallels between Amy's Choice and Turn Left.



Living in the limelight, the universal dream for those who wish to seem.
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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 21 May 2010, 15:20 
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Experiment 1337 wrote:
I saw huge parallels between Amy's Choice and Turn Left.
...how were they huge?



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 21 May 2010, 17:18 
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An alternate but corrupted reality where one woman who happens to be the companion has to make the choice if she wants to give up her life as she knows it to decide whether the reality should be destroyed for the greater good, never quite knowing if things will turn out alright if she does make that choice but risking it anyway, and the way she has to make that choice is to intentionally die via car accident?

I see his point.


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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 21 May 2010, 17:30 
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Yes. I'd forgotten about "Turn Left".

And I'm sure that final reflection does hint at something to come. I don't really see why they'd have bothered otherwise.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 21 May 2010, 21:30 
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Teenage Mage wrote:
An alternate but corrupted reality where one woman who happens to be the companion has to make the choice if she wants to give up her life as she knows it to decide whether the reality should be destroyed for the greater good, never quite knowing if things will turn out alright if she does make that choice but risking it anyway, and the way she has to make that choice is to intentionally die via car accident?

I see his point.
Except this "alternate reality" isn't an alternate reality, it's a dream. Still I do see the point, and concur. I was kind of hoping 1337 would expound.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 May 2010, 11:26 
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Was anyone else thinking (at first), that the Dream Lord was the Master? The thought occurred to me during the episode.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 May 2010, 13:25 
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Yeah, it occurred to me...for about five seconds. It just didn't seem like the Master's style, quite. Plus I don't think the Master really hates the Doctor. He's got some strange obsession with him, sure, but I think if it was just hate he would have killed the Doctor long ago and been done with it. It's not like he hasn't had the chance.


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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 May 2010, 20:39 
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Experiment 1337 wrote:
Was anyone else thinking (at first), that the Dream Lord was the Master? The thought occurred to me during the episode.
TARDIS Index on the Dream Lord wrote:
The Dream Lord shares some similarities with a few prominent villains seen throughout the classic series, most notably the Valeyard who was also a manifestation of the Doctor's own dark side. Although some fans believe the Dream Lord may in fact be an early version of the Valeyard, the fact that the Doctor calls the Psychic Pollen involved in the creature's appearance a 'mind parasite' suggests that the Dream Lord is actually an alien simply using the Doctor's subconscious mind to attack him.
This is where my brain immediately went almost as soon as Eleven made his "only one person hates me that much" comment, particularly since I've been practically praying for them to bring back the Valeyard and the Rani before this. And even though the above dismisses the idea of the Valeyard actually being the Dream Lord... could still be very easily rationalised.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 May 2010, 20:50 
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So, does his comment about "only one person who hates me that much" mean he hates himself? He'd certainly have reason; all the things he's had to do to save someone or something to prevent a greater evil would certainly justify hatred of himself.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 May 2010, 21:37 
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Naturally.
And considering both the Valeyard and the Dream Lord are in fact himself...
Yeah.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 May 2010, 23:10 
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An interesting note; it seems for all his arrogance, the Doctor has got some major self-loathing issues to work through there. I guess all the angst didn't go away with Ten (then again, it probably never will...)

Interestingly, the graphic novel The Forgotten has a rather similar villain attacking Ten, although in that case it was more of a bug thing that manifested as 10.5 with a really bad goatee. The Dream Lord was certainly better at being a threat, I can tell you that...although really, the exact canonicity of stuff like the comics is up for grabs, so make of that what you will.


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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 23 May 2010, 08:14 
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I'm not sure it counts; it was kind of silly.



Living in the limelight, the universal dream for those who wish to seem.
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Get on with the fascination,
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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 24 May 2010, 11:38 
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I'm pretty sure comics and books don't count as canon.



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 Post subject: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 24 May 2010, 20:40 
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So, who can't wait for the second part of The Hungry Earth? I can't!

I wonder when they're going to reintroduce the Cybermen. They were going to do it this season.



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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014, 16:27 
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Ok, resurrecting a rather old thread because the more recent one was about a specific season.

Ethan and I were talking about Steven Moffat recently and I remembered that someone (ClanSoul, I think) had linked to a less than complimentary article about him on Facebook. Some of the complaints made in it against him may be a bit petty, and it's possible that some may be reading too much into things he's said in the past, but overall he doesn't come out of it in the best of lights at all, and the criticism about his scathing attitude towards 'fans obsessed with little details no one else cares about, like why someone who regularly rends space-time suddenly can’t rend space or time' is something I very strongly relate to and have been getting frustrated about in his writing ever since he took over the show.

Anyone else have any thoughts or opinions on the article or on him?



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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2014, 16:46 
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Personally my thoughts are quite near to what that article describes, except my thoughts aren't so focused on the sexism hang-up Aja Romano seems to have so much as it is that he's fallen into terribad storytelling. That said, most of the points in that article, though from the perspective of sexism, still are valid supporting reasons WHY the storytelling is so awful now.

In the interest of fairness, I also feel like CBS's Elementary isn't Sherlock Holmes save in name. I am not inherently against the show, I am inherently against its Holmesian veneer which serves no purpose. I mean why not do something more original and just attribute heavy inspiration to Doyle?



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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2014, 04:42 
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Anybody else heard this yet?

https://soundcloud.com/deon-james-gelpi ... und-doctor
An Audio prequel for series 8.

*warning its about 52 minutes long.
it is about the doctor's regeneration from matt into peter.

Als the doctor says Arses in this. so there's that.




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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2014, 23:05 
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Man, I am glad to see some Moffat hating going on. I really cant stand what the show has become. I really liked Matt Smith and Amy Pond,(And Rory is probably the greatest companion to ever exist) but Moffat wasted no time in ruining every one of these characters. CLara. God damnit Clara. I really wanted to like her. She had an interested concept at first, someone who keeps encountering the Doctor and dying. Moffat does what he always does though, makes her story way to fucking important to the story line of the show. He also wrote her terribly and as much as pretty of a face that she may be, she has no substance. NOT TO MENTION the incoherent connection between the new years special, anniversary special, and season finale. Even SHerlock reeks of Moffats need to write stories beyond himself. How bad was the end to this recent season? Was that supposed to be unpredictable? Also, great job and explaining the fall.

Some of the greatest episodes in the pre Moffat era of Doctor Who were written by Moffat. Blink. The Library. They were doctor who at its best, so you cant say that Moffat cant write well when he has someone lording over him. Fuck him having creative control though.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014, 06:24 
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Musing with Ampersands wrote:
Moffat does what he always does though, makes her story way to fucking important to the story line of the show.
That's something else I recall discussing in the past (also with Ethan, I think). I think having one companion who turns out to be really significant to the timeline in some way is a great idea. Having two feels rather implausible, but having 3 or 4 stretches the bounds of credibility beyond breaking point. Now if it were to turn out that there was some really interesting phenomenon going on behind the scenes that was constantly throwing the Doctor and all these vitally important women together then that could be pretty cool. But that won't happen - Moffat has now time and again built up intriguing and apparently complex scenarios that have kept me hooked and keen to see what fascinating climax they're building up to, only to have some highly unsatisfactory and ill-thought out finale that leaves a load of stuff unresolved.
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Some of the greatest episodes in the pre Moffat era of Doctor Who were written by Moffat. Blink. The Library. They were doctor who at its best, so you cant say that Moffat cant write well when he has someone lording over him.
Indeed. I was pretty excited when Moffat took over. My three favourite episodes were all written by him. However, he's clearly someone who has flashes of genius and can produce an occasional great story but can't sustain the creativity at a constant level. And he makes things worse by hyping everything up so much beforehand that when the mediocre, or often downright bad, offering is finally aired it feels like even more of a let-down.



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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014, 13:29 
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Quote:
Indeed. I was pretty excited when Moffat took over. My three favorite episodes were all written by him. However, he's clearly someone who has flashes of genius and can produce an occasional great story but can't sustain the creativity at a constant level. And he makes things worse by hyping everything up so much beforehand that when the mediocre, or often downright bad, offering is finally aired it feels like even more of a let-down.



Yeah, and the thing is, we don't need every episode to be a work of genius, and Moffat seems obsessed with making every single story arch greater than his last.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014, 14:26 
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I know I would definitely agree with that. It's like he has a one-up-manship thing going on with himself.



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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2014, 16:41 
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I third that sentiment. There's a point where you just hit cliffhanger critical mass, or as I like to call it, the Square Cube Law of Cliffhangers (in the same way that you cannot simply increase the size of something without it completely structurally collapsing, you cannot create better cliffhangers just by exponentially increasing the threat size).

I think there's another element to it as well though, something I was thinking about today. I think that Moffat's pre-producer stories stood out in part because of their element of self-awareness. They were very frank and open about a lot of the tropes that Doctor Who runs on, and used them, and pointed them out in funny ways, and were always giving little nods to the fandom. For one story a season, that worked really well. It was like a breath of fresh air, a fist-bump between the show and its fans (if that makes any sense). But when Moffat became producer he extended that to the whole show and it became absolutely suffocating. Having that attitude in every episode becomes grating and undesirable very quickly; suddenly the show cannot do anything without saying "see what I did there?". It doesn't help that a lot of it runs on tell-don't-show, which any decent writer can tell you is bad. It seems like we can't go ten minutes in an episode anymore without getting yet another lengthy, epic speech about the Doctor and how awesome and mysterious and terrifying he is. I liked the show a lot better when the Doctor was a mysterious drifter who showed up, dealt with problems by being badass, and then left while everyone was going, "Who the hell was that...?" Sure, it merits some discussion, but it's been discussed to death.

One of my favorite quotes, from Lord of the Rings, is, "He that breaks a thing to find out what it was has left the path of wisdom." Rather melodramatic in this context, sure, but I think it applies. Deconstruction isn't automatically a good thing.

Most of Moffat's female characters really annoy me too...but I should probably stop this tirade before it starts to move under its own power.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2014, 14:33 
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The Time Being wrote:
Most of Moffat's female characters really annoy me too
dinowoman wrote:
Ethan and I were talking about Steven Moffat recently and I remembered that someone (ClanSoul, I think) had linked to a less than complimentary article about him on Facebook.
Granted this is all atop my own rather succinct opinion of "Oh my frikkin god can't you learn to pair him with anything other than a spunky young mildly anti-authoritarian woman who accidentally ends up being the most important person in reality for a brief moment?"



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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2014, 20:52 
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I hadn't gotten around to reading that article until just now, and at first I was really shocked. Then I realized it didn't tell me much that I either didn't already figure out for myself just from watching his stuff, or would be willing to fully accept at face value without more solid proof that it was not taken out of context. But there was one thing, one thing which I had heard of him saying before, and it pissed me off then, and it pissed me off now, so here goes:

[rant]

Asexuality is boring? Asexuality is boring? The most un-discussed, un-explored, un-written-about strand of human sexuality is boring to you? If you're writing porn, sure, but last time I checked, you weren't. You are, in fact, writing for just about the only two well-known cultural characters who are asexual, or at least they were until you came along and decided that even if they had attracted and held audience attention and fascination for decades due to their complex minds, fascinating escapades, and compellingly charismatic-yet-flawed personalities, they weren't interesting until they dropped that silly ol' pretext of believing they knew something about their own sexuality and started fucking other characters for our entertainment. Of course, that shouldn't be real surprising, considering that one of your favorite gags is the idea that a random stranger can debunk everything a person thinks they know about how they relate to human beings with one smug glance. But hey, that's not boring at all, no matter how many times you do it. And it sure as hell ain't boring to repeat the exact same relationship, the same character arc, the same emotions, that was worn out from being used for, I don't know, the entirety of human history, even before you came along and retread that ground so much that all that comes out of it is sludge! Exploring the myriad of different ways the people put in the bizarre and fantastical situations your shows revolve around could form relationships would be boring, because it doesn't involve sex. Just remember, kids, as Captain Jack and River Song are all too happy to tell you: don't be ashamed or upset if you feel different from other people, if you're gay or bi, because in the enlightened future, such things don't matter anymore. Everyone is free to express their sexuality all over the place in whatever fashion feels best to them, and no one judges or persecutes them or even thinks differently about them because of it. Unless, of course, you don't want to have sex at all; then you're just a freak. Even the aliens think you're a freak.

[/rant]

I do agree with what Ethan said a few, uh, months ago, though. Elementary really is Sherlock Holmes in name only.


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 Post subject: Re: Doctor Who
PostPosted: 10 Jul 2014, 14:48 
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Have you ever found yourself wondering what the doctor looked like between Nine and Ten? Well wonder no more, because metacrisis or not it's a real person and his name is Miroslav Klose

Half Chris Eccleston, half David Tennant, and all football.



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