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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 13:43 
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Phoenix Wright's already in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom so someone's already thought up moves for him, but I do agree that Nintendo do seem to be a bit funny about the Ace Attorney franchise, so I'd be very surprised ever to see him in an SSB game.



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 13:43 
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No, that's not Nintendo, that's Capcom that screws people over with the Ace Attorney series. (Which is why he's in UMvC. The fact he's in that game already might hurt his chances in being in SSB now that I think about it, despite the fact that franchise is dead in the water compared to SSB's popularity...) They also are responsible for the Mega Man franchise and while I am not a huge fan of the series, they pissed fans of that series over a while back too.

But no, Capcom and Namco (Tales of) are notorious for pulling that whole "You Americans don't deserve to have our games because they never sell well over here and no that has nothing to do with the fact we spend no money in advertising." I think they also blame piracy a lot but I think at least for Fire Emblem (which is published by Nintendo) that might actually be true. The others, probably not so much.

That said, I think there's hope for Ace Attorney characters to eventually make the roster. I mean those games have sold roughly as well as Fire Emblem has, though most of those worldwide sales are in Japan, even when it has come out over here. Then again, Japan is where they're MAKING the game, so... I dunno? One would think they'd at least try adding in a character to see if American players (where SSB is way more popular) might eventually get into the games or something. But Capcom is a really, really weird company.



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 14:49 
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The Time Being wrote:
Seriously though, all I know about it is that I'd be pretty stoked if Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton made it in there. Or Sissel. (I know that last one's not going to happen, but I can dream.)
Y'know, now I really want to know how Sissel would work. Seems like you'd be playing as the stage.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 14:52 
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Namco is especially Bad. By comparison, Capcom is so-so. Basically, this is why their cross overs never cross over the Pacific. They state that due to all the characters that people won't recognize, it won't be as good here, cause us Americans ((Canadians, whatever)) will be horribly confused at all those people we don't recognize, forget that they also have Original characters, whom we won't recognize, and that Smash bros is an EXCELLENT example of why that is hogwash. Though sometimes it is also a matter of licensing issues, since their games sometimes contain characters that belong to games that were lisenced to different companies in North America. ((Related to this Rant, I am so pleased that we're getting Project X Zone.))

But now that that rant is over, on to the next one. Yeah, of course MVC is poor in popularity compared to Smash Bros. The Empire State Building is short compared to the CN Tower. Is it an A list game? maybe not, but I'd put it firmly in high B list. And throwing their own iconic character into their own game rather than Nintendo's is hardly mis-managing him.

I wonder if I can come up with something less ranty... Hmm... assuming a Namco character, maybe Klonoa? I know nothing about him beyond them liking to use him as a sort of non Packman mascot. Oh, and Galaga Assist trophy.



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 15:03 
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Avalon wrote:
But now that that rant is over, on to the next one. Yeah, of course MVC is poor in popularity compared to Smash Bros. The Empire State Building is short compared to the CN Tower. Is it an A list game? maybe not, but I'd put it firmly in high B list. And throwing their own iconic character into their own game rather than Nintendo's is hardly mis-managing him.


I... wasn't implying they were...?



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 16:10 
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Ah, Well, then. I must have misread. Let us never speak of this again.

Ah man, Kite from Dot hack. Assist trophy again. I doubt they'd toss such a second stringer in as a battle character, since I'm expecting at MOST two playable Namco characters ((At least one)) and a fair limit on the Assist trophies.

And yeah, basically adding new characters each time I post.



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 21:13 
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Medusa wrote:
Except it isn't just soccer moms playing Wii Fit. That's a huge misconception about the game. Wii Fit was one of the highest selling games for the Wii, and it's actually part of why sales boosted after that huge slump they had. Hell Wii Fit was why my dad bought the console the begin with, and he's definitely more of a "neck beard" (whatever that is, I mean I know literally what it is but...) when it comes to video games than he is a soccer mom.

While Wii Fit itself has its flaws when it comes to how much fitness it actually supports, it's been used by the military and other organizations for rehabilitation purposes. It's sold nearly 23 million copies worldwide, and Wii Fit Plus is at a little over 21 million. There's a lot more overlap than you're making it seem like there is. Wii Fit is the 13th best selling game (Wii Fit Plus is 15th) of all time according to their numbers (source). Other places have similar placement of the titles. (By the way each of those games have sold only slightly less than SSB, SSBM, and SSBB sales put together; that total is 24.31 million.) Hell, Wild World only has 11.86 million sold, and the entire Animal Crossing franchise gets to about Wii Fit Plus-level sales.


You're just expanding on exactly what I was getting at. 'Neckbeards' are the minority of nintendo's ~100 million customers who have been playing since NES, the people who hang out on /v/ and argue endlessly about the tiny details in the lore of their games. The neckbeards bought their Wiis to play Zelda, to play Xenoblade and Monster Hunter and so on. Not one of them so much as touched Wii Fit. On the other hand, the ~50 million casuals who bought Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort and so on didn't touch any of the 'hardcore' games. There's a complete schism in the fanbase, and this is the first time they've tried to merge the two.

(The other ~30 million are the new generation, whose libraries consist of Raving Rabbids and a couple of awful movie games and aren't really relevent here)


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Hell considering the fact there was so much divisiveness on the subject shows how well-known of a character she and her male counterpart are. I mean, for real, it wasn't like people were like, "Wait, who is that? What game is she from?" I won't say that NO ONE said it, but I certainly didn't see any sort of reaction of that ilk at all.


That was exactly the reaction I was expressing in my previous post. I didn't know who she was :~


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How many kids in the "neck beard" category grew up playing Game & Watch? ...Probably not many.

Like I said, there isn't any real reason to not include her. The game may have a nice roster but it's still pretty lulzy, it's Nintendo-based, and well, I just can't take the game seriously enough to be like, "lol she shouldn't be included because reasons," especially when those reasons don't hold up. I mean, if you don't like using her, don't use her, but it's not like Nintendo isn't allowed to add other characters and she's taking up a spot for someone else. I mean, technically she is, but Nintendo wasn't like, legally required to set a certain number of characters to add to the roster, if that makes sense.

By the way, despite the length of this response, I'm not upset about this or assuming anyone is vehemently against her or anything, haha. I've just had various friends link me to stuff on this recently so it's fresh on my mind and I seriously don't understand the "she doesn't fit" argument because... I mean she fits as much as anyone else does. A few similar arguments were made about the Villager, but I'm like, they have THREE Fire Emblem characters and not a single title has apparently broken one million in sales worldwide. Sooo... just don't use him?


SSB is specifically marketed at the neckbeards - the kids who grew up playing Game and Watch, Fire Emblem, Earthbound and so on. The only reason any of them would be familiar with her is if they bought their mum a copy of Wii Fit to get her interested in gaming.

And yeah, I'm likewise not upset or anything. I just don't understand this move.



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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2013, 21:15 
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David wrote:
The Time Being wrote:
Seriously though, all I know about it is that I'd be pretty stoked if Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton made it in there. Or Sissel. (I know that last one's not going to happen, but I can dream.)
Y'know, now I really want to know how Sissel would work. Seems like you'd be playing as the stage.


YES.

I don't really follow the gaming community very well, but I was under the impression that Ace Attorney was pretty well known and loved in the US, more so than some of the stuff that's made it in there so far (how many people recognized Lucas?). I'm not saying this will have any sway on Capcom's insane troll logic minds, just, uh...I don't know what I'm saying. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Anyway, if they were having trouble coming up with moves for Phoenix, they could always have him throw boots at people.


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013, 11:01 
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Myke wrote:
You're just expanding on exactly what I was getting at. 'Neckbeards' are the minority of nintendo's ~100 million customers who have been playing since NES, the people who hang out on /v/ and argue endlessly about the tiny details in the lore of their games. The neckbeards bought their Wiis to play Zelda, to play Xenoblade and Monster Hunter and so on. Not one of them so much as touched Wii Fit. On the other hand, the ~50 million casuals who bought Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort and so on didn't touch any of the 'hardcore' games. There's a complete schism in the fanbase, and this is the first time they've tried to merge the two.


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That was exactly the reaction I was expressing in my previous post. I didn't know who she was :~


The sheer numbers of people who bought the Wii Fit versus those who have purchased any SSB kind of put a hole in that argument. The reaction of people who actually want her in the game also puts a hole in that argument.

You're literally the first person I've heard say they didn't know who she was. It feels like you're taking your experience and expanding that to talk about a general populace, or you're referring specifically to a subgroup within the SSB fandom that spends all their time writing up tier lists on message boards and arguing about MetaKnight bans. That's a very specific subset of the fandom and yeah, maybe they've never touched a Wii Fit game in their lives, but they're also not the only people who've ever played SSB. That's like saying the people who spent all their time whining about tier lists in FESS were representative of the entire Fire Emblem fandom.

My point is there is more overlap in the two populations than you're making it out to be. Not everyone who plays the Wii Fit is some random person's mom and not everyone who plays SSB is like ultra uber hardcore gamer, which I already expanded on in my last post, and somehow you're making it out to be like that discussion supports your argument, when it doesn't.

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SSB is specifically marketed at the neckbeards - the kids who grew up playing Game and Watch, Fire Emblem, Earthbound and so on. The only reason any of them would be familiar with her is if they bought their mum a copy of Wii Fit to get her interested in gaming.

And yeah, I'm likewise not upset or anything. I just don't understand this move.


Uh, considering how many people don't even know who Mr. Game & Watch is, I doubt they grew up playing that, lol... Game & Watch is a franchise from the early 80s. Most of the kids who play SSB were likely not even alive when it was in its heyday.

I guess my point is that it may be marginally targeted toward a different market (I don't fully buy that argument either) but that doesn't mean that other people didn't pick it up. Some random "mom" (sure, we'll go with that) may not play SSB but I would be willing to bet money that many--if not most--people who played some form of SSB have at least heard of the Wii Fit trainer, in either male or female form, because a lot of them have played it. You can see that in the fandom she has already... A lot of people were actually stoked she was included because they knew who she was. You can't (logically anyway) be excited for a character being included if you don't know who she is.

I'm not saying they should have added her, but now that they've announced it I don't get why people are whining about it. It makes perfect sense to include her considering what we know about just about every other character they've included in the game in the past.



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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013, 11:37 
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Myke wrote:
Medusa wrote:

You're just expanding on exactly what I was getting at. 'Neckbeards' are the minority of nintendo's ~100 million customers who have been playing since NES, the people who hang out on /v/ and argue endlessly about the tiny details in the lore of their games. The neckbeards bought their Wiis to play Zelda, to play Xenoblade and Monster Hunter and so on. Not one of them so much as touched Wii Fit. On the other hand, the ~50 million casuals who bought Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort and so on didn't touch any of the 'hardcore' games. There's a complete schism in the fanbase, and this is the first time they've tried to merge the two.

(The other ~30 million are the new generation, whose libraries consist of Raving Rabbids and a couple of awful movie games and aren't really relevent here)


Uh, what about me? I don't fit into any of those three categories and I know I'm not the only one because this board is full of likewise people.


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PostPosted: 21 Jun 2013, 11:39 
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Honestly, Several people wanted the Animal Crossing Villiager, no one even contemplated the Wii Fit trainer, And Sakurai added her because he wanted to surprise everyone.

The thing is, the only important factor is that she's fun to play. If she meets that criteria, I don't think it matters if she's odd or a strange fit. And the idea that there is a forced schism between Neckbeards and Casual Chumps is a little insulting. Apparently I am less of a gamer because I play Buzz Trivia or Little Big Planet. ((That's actually a brilliant combo of casual and serious, as far as I have noticed.)) And more to the point, Smash bros is pretty light as far as "Hardcore" goes. It certainly has a hardcore following, but it's not like you don't get a few casuals playing it. It's not a line in the sand, it's a graded scale.

And... I think... I'm starting to run out of ideas. Maybe Daisy as her own Character? More Mario sports themed than Peach's occasional Racket or Golf club.

Hilio went long ball for this and wants the Bartender from Bladestorm. "Merthenaries"



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 12:40 
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Medusa wrote:
The reaction of people who actually want her in the game also puts a hole in that argument.


There was an explosion of support from reddit that sprung up because they thought it was hilarious she was included, and that sparked a whole mess of tumblr/twitter/facebook users getting on board because of the natural meme bleed. A lot of her supporters are in it for 'irony' (or are sexist morons), but whether or not she's popular doesn't really have anything to do with the matter at hand:
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no one even contemplated the Wii Fit trainer, And Sakurai added her because he wanted to surprise everyone.


It came completely out of nowhere.

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The sheer numbers of people who bought the Wii Fit versus those who have purchased any SSB kind of put a hole in that argument.


Once again this is exactly what I'm talking about. Of the ~100 million wii owners, ~40 million bought wii fit (this is about 2/3rds the size of the casual audience) and 10 million bought SSBB (this is the size of the entire hardcore audience). It was completely facetious to say there was absolutely zero overlap, but I was speaking figuratively. If we want to be literal, flagship titles sell to each audience about 50/50. Mario Kart sells 90% to casuals and 10% to hardcore. Monster Hunter sells 90% to hardcore and 10% to casuals.
SSB is a neckbeard favourite, and very few of them passed on it when it came to the wii - even those who obstinately insisted that melee's mechanics were better still got a copy. I maintain that at least 75% of the sales were to this audience.

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You're literally the first person I've heard say they didn't know who she was. It feels like you're taking your experience and expanding that to talk about a general populace, or you're referring specifically to a subgroup within the SSB fandom that spends all their time writing up tier lists on message boards and arguing about MetaKnight bans. That's a very specific subset of the fandom and yeah, maybe they've never touched a Wii Fit game in their lives, but they're also not the only people who've ever played SSB. That's like saying the people who spent all their time whining about tier lists in FESS were representative of the entire Fire Emblem fandom.


Apples and oranges. Fire Emblem is equal parts finely-tuned game mechanics (which the tier list guys care about) and character-driven plots (which the rest the fans care about). SSB is purely fighting mechanics dressed up in nostalgia - once you've tried your favourite characters out, there's literally nothing there for you unless you care about the metagame. Until Brawl, the single-player solely existed as a training gambit used to hone your zoning, airgame and so on for when you did actually get into a match. If you want to tell me that a large section of the fanbase was actually invested in the subspace emissary plot, then I don't think we can discuss this any further.

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Uh, considering how many people don't even know who Mr. Game & Watch is, I doubt they grew up playing that, lol... Game & Watch is a franchise from the early 80s. Most of the kids who play SSB were likely not even alive when it was in its heyday.


The hardcore audience I'm talking about, the 10% minority of nintendo's customers, are the gamers who grew up in the 80's. The younger generation of neckbeards play the older games through emulation and re-releases, and any time they don't spend gaming is spent on gaming sites and message boards - being exposed to the franchises they haven't yet tried.

The Time Being wrote:
Uh, what about me? I don't fit into any of those three categories and I know I'm not the only one because this board is full of likewise people.


If gaming and gaming culture consumes your every waking thought, then you're a neckbeard. If not, then you're casual. The newer generation are slowly being sorted into one or the other, but in reality there's only two categories.

Avalon wrote:
And the idea that there is a forced schism between Neckbeards and Casual Chumps is a little insulting. Apparently I am less of a gamer because I play Buzz Trivia or Little Big Planet.


Nobody is saying casual gamers are not gamers. Look it says right here: casual gamer. Nobody is calling you a chump.
The amount of time you put into a thing you enjoy is totally up to you, and frankly, it's much healthier to do it in moderation than to drop out of school and play games in your parents' basement for the rest of your life. If you look at that lifestyle and think 'I wish I was one of those prestigious few' then you've got a few priorities to straighten out.



At the end of the day, a casual gamer is going to buy less games than a hardcore gamer - and generally speaking, these games are going to be the flagship titles (or on other consoles, the AAA titles). Outside of this market, a game needs to cater to a niche audience if it wants to be successful, and SSB's niche purposefully avoids motion control peripherals in favour of 'pure' games, like those of their youth. Including the Wii Fit Trainer flies directly in the face of that paradigm, which indicates a shift towards a more casual market for SSBU. This may mean that the game will become more homogenised to appeal to a broader audience, which is by definition a bad thing for game diversity. It's the reason Dead Space 3 is more an action game than a horror game, why Mass Effect 3 is more an action game than an RPG, and why everyone is dreading the future of Dark Souls 2.

Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into it.



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 13:26 
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I'm not even going to touch the other stuff, because I'm repeating myself at this point. So this'll probably be my last on this and then I'm okay to agree to disagree, ha.

Myke wrote:
Once again this is exactly what I'm talking about. Of the ~100 million wii owners, ~40 million bought wii fit (this is about 2/3rds the size of the casual audience) and 10 million bought SSBB (this is the size of the entire hardcore audience). It was completely facetious to say there was absolutely zero overlap, but I was speaking figuratively. If we want to be literal, flagship titles sell to each audience about 50/50. Mario Kart sells 90% to casuals and 10% to hardcore. Monster Hunter sells 90% to hardcore and 10% to casuals.
SSB is a neckbeard favourite, and very few of them passed on it when it came to the wii - even those who obstinately insisted that melee's mechanics were better still got a copy. I maintain that at least 75% of the sales were to this audience.


It might be a "neckbeard" favorite but that still doesn't cover the fact that plenty of people who play both or know of both or whatever. I own Wii Fit but have also played SSB though I haven't been able to nab a copy for myself yet. I mentioned this topic on Twitter and four other people who fall into the "hardcore" category considering they write for larger video game review websites and they ALL thought (I linked to this topic) that it is ridiculous to think that only "neckbeard" players play SSB. They all support her inclusion in SSB because she's a NINTENDO CHARACTER, and they think it's dumb that anyone thinks there's that big of a chasm there. (One of them even said something along the lines of, "How does anyone NOT know who she is? I've never even touched Wii Fit nor my Wii in like, a year, and I know who she is purely from saturation.") Granted, yes, this is a very small sample size, and it's a very particular group of people (who most people would still consider "hardcore" which is in and of itself a stupid term), but the fact I was so easily able to find several people to go, "Uh... what?" who actually know about video games (as opposed to people who would say "Uh what?" and be legitimately confused) makes me seriously question this idea.

There are actually quite a few people who are legitimately supporting her inclusion. (Hell two out of the four people who responded yesterday said as such without being prompted. Then again, one of them also wants the eShop bag, which I have to admit would be lulzy.) Just because it came out of nowhere doesn't mean it's not supported. Just because a couple of people are being ironic about it doesn't mean that everyone is, or even that a majority is. I'm not a "neckbeard" or a "soccer mom" and I know of and play and own/have been trying to get my hands on both games. If I did a poll on my Facebook it'd be the same way for the vast majority of my gamer friends. I could probably get the same results in a couple of the gaming groups I'm in as well. Several people on this forum, as TTB mentioned, are in the same boat. I just don't buy what you're saying because a couple people on Reddit bitched or a couple people on some SSB forum bitched. The idea that no one who wasn't a "neckbeard" bought SSB or that only people who bought SSB are "neckbeards" is just... ridiculous, no offense. I'm easily finding WAY too many counterexamples to believe that's the case. (I also don't believe that every "neckbeard" grew up playing Game & Watch. That franchise has sold maybe 6 million worldwide EVER. Considering you just said the entire "neckbeard" category is 10 million, some of those sales are overlaps (someone bought multiple titles), and each individual game did not sell that much, I doubt it.)

Also just because someone expands their market doesn't mean the quality of the game is going to go down. Of course Nintendo is trying to get more people to buy their game. That's kind of the point. That doesn't mean it's going to inherently ruin the diversity of the game or make it suck more. (Oh and lastly part of the reason Mass Effect 3 had such poor storyline in comparison to the others was also pressure from EA to get the game out quickly and several major changes to the writing staff. Not everything that's bad in a video game is because "lol catering to casuals." Just felt the need to point that out because I've heard that argument before and that's kind of annoying.)

So yeah I have no real interest in continuing this, lol, unless you want to. I'm okay with agreeing to disagree.

-----

I was thinking, this used to be a Golden Sun fansite, so uh, why hasn't anyone mentioned them? They're not getting included, probably ever, but these would be my choices:

Jupiter: Ivan (I hate Sheeba for a reason I can't even remember)
Mars: Jenna
Mercury: Mia/Piers/Alex, Alex would probably be the most interesting since he's a villain
Venus: Felix

I didn't include anyone from Dark Dawn because I found the game to be a bit lacking and I barely even remember the characters at this point. Then again, I only played through Dark Dawn once whereas I played through the other two several times. But it'd be cool to be able to summon Djinni and such.



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 14:51 
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Medusa wrote:
It might be a "neckbeard" favorite but that still doesn't cover the fact that plenty of people who play both or know of both or whatever. I own Wii Fit but have also played SSB though I haven't been able to nab a copy for myself yet. I mentioned this topic on Twitter and four other people who fall into the "hardcore" category considering they write for larger video game review websites and they ALL thought (I linked to this topic) that it is ridiculous to think that only "neckbeard" players play SSB. They all support her inclusion in SSB because she's a NINTENDO CHARACTER, and they think it's dumb that anyone thinks there's that big of a chasm there. (One of them even said something along the lines of, "How does anyone NOT know who she is? I've never even touched Wii Fit nor my Wii in like, a year, and I know who she is purely from saturation.") Granted, yes, this is a very small sample size, and it's a very particular group of people (who most people would still consider "hardcore" which is in and of itself a stupid term), but the fact I was so easily able to find several people to go, "Uh... what?" who actually know about video games (as opposed to people who would say "Uh what?" and be legitimately confused) makes me seriously question this idea.

I've already conceded that a crossover exists. My point is that the core audience absolutely hates what she represents (I'm also conceding that I'm an outlier in that I didn't know who she was - I used your argument about saturation for G&W in my previous post btw).

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There are actually quite a few people who are legitimately supporting her inclusion. (Hell two out of the four people who responded yesterday said as such without being prompted. Then again, one of them also wants the eShop bag, which I have to admit would be lulzy.) Just because it came out of nowhere doesn't mean it's not supported. Just because a couple of people are being ironic about it doesn't mean that everyone is, or even that a majority is. I'm not a "neckbeard" or a "soccer mom" and I know of and play and own/have been trying to get my hands on both games. If I did a poll on my Facebook it'd be the same way for the vast majority of my gamer friends. I could probably get the same results in a couple of the gaming groups I'm in as well. Several people on this forum, as TTB mentioned, are in the same boat. I just don't buy what you're saying because a couple people on Reddit bitched or a couple people on some SSB forum bitched. The idea that no one who wasn't a "neckbeard" bought SSB or that only people who bought SSB are "neckbeards" is just... ridiculous, no offense. I'm easily finding WAY too many counterexamples to believe that's the case.

These examples - twitter, facebook, mercury - are communities with a wide variety of interests, one of which is gaming. This is the very definition of casual I provided in my previous post.
From the same post;
Quote:
It was completely facetious to say there was absolutely zero overlap, but I was speaking figuratively.


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Also just because someone expands their market doesn't mean the quality of the game is going to go down. Of course Nintendo is trying to get more people to buy their game. That's kind of the point. That doesn't mean it's going to inherently ruin the diversity of the game or make it suck more. (Oh and lastly part of the reason Mass Effect 3 had such poor storyline in comparison to the others was also pressure from EA to get the game out quickly and several major changes to the writing staff. Not everything that's bad in a video game is because "lol catering to casuals." Just felt the need to point that out because I've heard that argument before and that's kind of annoying.)

It doesn't always 100% mean that everything's definitely going down the drain, but it does mean there's a risk of it going that way - and it getting worse with any successive generations.

I'm noticing that as this debate developed, I gradually used less absolute terms and you started picking them up lol


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I was thinking, this used to be a Golden Sun fansite, so uh, why hasn't anyone mentioned them?

Oh shit good catch. People were pushing for Isaac in brawl and it felt like a missed opportunity.



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 14:55 
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Medusa wrote:
I was thinking, this used to be a Golden Sun fansite, so uh, why hasn't anyone mentioned them? They're not getting included, probably ever, but these would be my choices:

Jupiter: Ivan (I hate Sheeba for a reason I can't even remember)
Mars: Jenna
Mercury: Mia/Piers/Alex, Alex would probably be the most interesting since he's a villain
Venus: Felix

I didn't include anyone from Dark Dawn because I found the game to be a bit lacking and I barely even remember the characters at this point. Then again, I only played through Dark Dawn once whereas I played through the other two several times. But it'd be cool to be able to summon Djinni and such.
Honestly, I didn't bother mentioning it because I figured round here it didn't need saying. :P

It'd be a nice step up from that one assist trophy in Brawl. I suspect they'd just pick Isaac though, and maybe Alex or one of the Prox bunch for the villain side. Venus Lighthouse would make a nice stage.


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Myke wrote:
These examples - twitter, facebook, mercury - are communities with a wide variety of interests, one of which is gaming. This is the very definition of casual I provided in my previous post.

Okay I have to ask but what in sam hell is your definition of "casual"? The people I mentioned re: Twitter are video game reviewers for established sites like RPGFan and DieHard GameFAN (yeah, the now-defunct magazine), my Facebook friends include people who actually go to fighting game tournaments and such, and this site has at least one reviewer and its fair share of video game developers on it. That is not "casual" by any definition I've ever heard other than people who only want to justify playing their favorite game as "hardcore" and anyone else who does anything else as "casual." (I'm not saying you're doing that; I'm more referring to the people who are like, "You're not hardcore if you don't play [x] a hundred bajillion hours a day like I do!") Heck even the majority of Tumblr people following me play on the pro circuit for games like Team Fortress 2 and other similar titles, or do their own established game streaming. Sure, if I asked Twitter in general I could see that being a potential thing but I'm talking specifically about talking to people who play video games for a significant portion of their hobby time or actually make money off that time.

David wrote:
Venus Lighthouse would make a nice stage.

I'm totally biased but I would pick Mercury over Venus. Though yes you're right they'd likely go for Isaac or Felix or something, since they're the main characters. That's just too many people with swords in the game, IMO, though, so it'd be awesome if they picked someone else.

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Oh shit good catch. People were pushing for Isaac in brawl and it felt like a missed opportunity.

It really is. I mean the game wasn't THAT popular but damn if my hopes wouldn't get up if someone announced a rumor.



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 15:36 
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Medusa wrote:
Myke wrote:
These examples - twitter, facebook, mercury - are communities with a wide variety of interests, one of which is gaming.

Okay I have to ask but what in sam hell is your definition of "casual"?

Myke wrote:
...communities with a wide variety of interests, one of which is gaming.


Let me describe for you my friend Mitchell Struthers. Mitchell is 25 years old, weighs nearly 400 pounds and suffered his first heart attack last year. His diet consists of coca-cola, pizza, and fried chicken from the same pizza delivery place. He dropped out of school at the beginning of year 11, and has since lived underneath his grandmother's house, fused to his computer chair. 16 hours of his day is gaming, with an hour-long bathroom break in there somewhere, and the other 8 hours reserved for sleeping. He maintains this lifestyle via government benefits that he always has a new reason for being eligible for.

This is the definition of a neckbeard.

I'm an amateur game designer - some days, I spend the same 16 hours gaming, reading game articles and designing video games. But often, I'll go to a cricket event, lose myself in a novel or make the rounds passing out resumes. I'll be returning to university soon, and alongside that I will continue to study the arts and sciences in my free time. I look after two pets, keep the house clean for the people I'm boarding with and have a fairly active social life.

I am a casual gamer.

It may seem strange, but yes, there are 10 million other people like my friend Mitchell in nintendo's fanbase alone. They congregate on reddit, on /v/, on gamefaqs, and they consume as much gaming content as the other 90% put together. Many have a passing interest in anime and manga, as well, but it comes down to the same thing - they spend all of their time in fantasy worlds pretending their real life doesn't exist. If your friends are working in the game industry then they're not neckbeards: they have jobs.



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 15:39 
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Okay, then I definitely don't agree that SSB fans are made up primarily of "neckbeards," at least from my own experiences, which don't include a single person who plays the game that fits that definition. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. =/



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Medusa wrote:
David wrote:
Venus Lighthouse would make a nice stage.

I'm totally biased but I would pick Mercury over Venus.
Well, any of them would work really. (Jupiter with lightning strikes and those whirlwind statues and stuff?) I just went for Venus because it seemed the most plotful. (yes of course it's a word)


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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 16:00 
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David wrote:
(Jupiter with lightning strikes and those whirlwind statues and stuff?)


On second thought, I change my vote.



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 16:04 
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Medusa wrote:
Okay, then I definitely don't agree that SSB fans are made up primarily of "neckbeards," at least from my own experiences, which don't include a single person who plays the game that fits that definition. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. =/

Well yeah, they tend to keep to themselves by definition. I only know of the culture because I used to be one :~


can we just have a golden sun fighting game



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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2013, 16:12 
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Myke wrote:
can we just have a golden sun fighting game


Yes please.



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Sad to say I've never played Golden Sun. It didn't come up on my radar till after it was cool, and I never had the money to get it. But are the Lighthouses too different that they can't be one level which behaves differently every time you play it? Like that Pokemon level with the Diamond and Pearl Mons?

In other news, I kinda want some 64 retro levels back, like the original Pokemon level, or Hyrule Castle roof.



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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 20:19 
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I mean they look vaguely different, but I think only Jupiter has anything going on in the background. I guess they could make stuff up, I dunno.



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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2013, 23:56 
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Oh that's a thing, they mentioned that the handheld version would have stages based on handheld games (and console games for the console version) so we might have a pretty decent shot at seeing GS and other small titles getting representation.



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