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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 11:08 
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http://www.destructoid.com/miles-edgeworth-2-localization-sounds-unlikely-right-now-198596.phtml
http://www.petitiononline.com/AAI2US/petition.html

http://www.gamingbus.com/2012/02/06/capcom-reports-significant-net-income-loss/

Proof that karma exists.
Discuss.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 11:34 
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Since I've just been discussing this with Zeth on IM, I'll copy the thoughts that I expressed there (with some corrected typos :P).

dinowoman wrote:
*definitely looks like a case of karma XD
dino says (15:15):
*i'm also very tempted to sign that petition. i'm normally very reluctant to sign online petitions, but i find it hard to believe that they really wouldn't get enough interest in the west to justify localisation costs. the ace attorney series has been really popular, especially the recent releases

dinowoman wrote:
dino says (15:17):
*and i'd have thought that if miles edgeworth 2 doesn't justify the expense of localisation, almost no game is going to
dino says (15:18):
*maybe they should just give up and hand the franchise over to someone else who is willing to

dinowoman wrote:
dino says (15:22):
*and by refusing to release a western version of something as popular as miles edgeworth you can guarantee that some enterprising fan will translate the japanese one and produce a rom, so a lot of people who would have paid good money to buy the official version will just download an unofficial one and capcom will lose a lot of potential sales



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 12:38 
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Good. To be blunt, Capcom has truly pissed me off lately. I've never been the most dedicated of Megaman fans, but it's really the only Capcom series I've liked... ever. If they just stopped making the thing and didn't acknowledge the IP anymore, I'd be fine with it. "Sorry guys, we're not making money with this, so we're not going to touch it for a while. We'll consider making something and releasing it in a few years."

But no, they went the other route. They decided to mock the fans with cash in inclusions to Marvel vs Capcom.... and of course all the other things. I'm hoping that the loss isn't a one time thing and their online ventures crash and burn. Maybe they'll realize that pissing off their fanbase isn't a good idea then.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 16:51 
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I've always liked Capcom, but I admit this is pretty funny. I still haven't played the first Miles Edgeworth game (I got rid of my DS not long after it came out and I have yet to buy any DS games for my 3DS) but it sounds like it's a really fun game, and a lot of people were talking about it after it came out, so I can't imagine it didn't make them enough money to justify this. I mean, if something can justify them localizing a batshit insane looking game like Asura's Wrath, surely they can scrape up the money to localize a game they KNOW people want.


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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 18:31 
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All the Ace Attorney games are pretty fly, but the Miles Edgeworth Investigations are the best of them. I frankly call that load about AAI2 not being able to outsell Okamiden...well, a load. It's simply not true. Okami had a cult following to being with, so that was already working against its sequel. One could say the same thing about AA in America/Europe, but frankly, a "cult following" that extends beyond one game and across the franchise is not a cult following at all, but a fanbase. AA has a fanbase. That guarantees a market for the game. And because of that, someone will, like Les said, eventually translate the game and the ROM will start circulating. And because ROM distributions will increase, people who otherwise would have bit the bullet and bought the game anyway are going to go for the ROM, because, hey, it's available and it's in their language, so why should they struggle with the foreign language and financially support and institution that refused to localise to language only, say, oh... more than twenty-fove percent of the world speaks.

"Oh, but Ethan, you are being such a typical American egoist," you may say. "You shouldn't just expect things to just be handed to you in a convenient form. After all, how do you think television viewers across the world feel when their favourite American or British shows aren't translated into their native language and they have to speak English to understand them?" you may say. Well to you, hypothetical lady or gentleman, I say screw you. This is simple business. The popularity of the AA series has been rising in the English speaking game market, not shrinking. The Japanese market, on the other hand, can only go so high, and is already at a significant height of where anyone could expect it to be. Capcom's got a real issue with thinking it's a big name brand like it used to be back when Megaman was a really huge franchise. It's not that any more. But somehow, Capcom missed the memo, and now their business decisions simply don't make sense.

Instead of doing trying to push franchises like Ace Attorney-slash-Ghost Trick to their fullest potential and revitalise themselves to a degree, they're pulling crap like what Furby said in regards to Megaman. And Nathan Woods' article on Gamingbus was very savvy in wording one statement as "the quick cash-in on Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3". And I'm not very knowledgeable about the Street Fighter series, but from what I understand from my friends (anybody who knows more about the subject do correct me if I'm dead-wrong here) who are more familiar with it, the recent productions in that franchise haven't been much more than a flash-in-the-pan excitement and sales.

Conclusion: Capcom must have some really great game developers, but the people managing the chequebooks and thus calling the shots are complete morons.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 19:52 
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I'm not sure if this counts as karma. Karma would be more like if the Capcom offices got struck by a meteor or something. This seems more like plain old cause and effect.


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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 22:26 
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Which office? I'd prefer the Japanese one, since they're calling the shots, but Japan seems to have suffered enough recently.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 23:55 
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I dunno. I'm not advocating for anything else horrible to happen to Japan for whatever reason. I just think of karma as something that comes about in a random act-of-god sort of way, as opposed to, say, playing with matches and being surprised when you set your fingers on fire.

What I'm saying here is that this does not prove against the idea of a dark, cold, karma-less universe.


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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2012, 01:52 
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Oooh, something I can talk about, exciting!

Zeth wrote:
I frankly call that load about AAI2 not being able to outsell Okamiden...well, a load. It's simply not true. Okami had a cult following to being with, so that was already working against its sequel. One could say the same thing about AA in America/Europe, but frankly, a "cult following" that extends beyond one game and across the franchise is not a cult following at all, but a fanbase. AA has a fanbase. That guarantees a market for the game. And because of that, someone will, like Les said, eventually translate the game and the ROM will start circulating. And because ROM distributions will increase, people who otherwise would have bit the bullet and bought the game anyway are going to go for the ROM, because, hey, it's available and it's in their language, so why should they struggle with the foreign language and financially support and institution that refused to localise to language only, say, oh... more than twenty-fove percent of the world speaks.
Which is a fair point, but assumes two things that aren't born out by facts:

1.) That the Ace Attorney games were steadily inproving (or at least remaining consistent) in sales; while VGChartz is hardly the most reliable source on Earth, making do with what we have, Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney sold around 400K units, while Miles Edgeworth did around 170K, which says from a business standpoint "No one wants to buy these games anymore", and

2.) That Okami was performing poorly in comparison; while Okami on the PS2 did around 110K, Okami on the Wii did around 400K, which, from a sales perspective, says "Well, the NEXT game should do even better!" While this is not at all true, the point remains that it would stand to reason that Capcom would release Okamiden and not ME2 would get turfed.

Zeth wrote:
"Oh, but Ethan, you are being such a typical American egoist," you may say. "You shouldn't just expect things to just be handed to you in a convenient form. After all, how do you think television viewers across the world feel when their favourite American or British shows aren't translated into their native language and they have to speak English to understand them?" you may say. Well to you, hypothetical lady or gentleman, I say screw you. This is simple business. The popularity of the AA series has been rising in the English speaking game market, not shrinking. The Japanese market, on the other hand, can only go so high, and is already at a significant height of where anyone could expect it to be. Capcom's got a real issue with thinking it's a big name brand like it used to be back when Megaman was a really huge franchise. It's not that any more. But somehow, Capcom missed the memo, and now their business decisions simply don't make sense.

Instead of doing trying to push franchises like Ace Attorney-slash-Ghost Trick to their fullest potential and revitalise themselves to a degree, they're pulling crap like what Furby said in regards to Megaman. And Nathan Woods' article on Gamingbus was very savvy in wording one statement as "the quick cash-in on Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3". And I'm not very knowledgeable about the Street Fighter series, but from what I understand from my friends (anybody who knows more about the subject do correct me if I'm dead-wrong here) who are more familiar with it, the recent productions in that franchise haven't been much more than a flash-in-the-pan excitement and sales.

Conclusion: Capcom must have some really great game developers, but the people managing the chequebooks and thus calling the shots are complete morons.
I mentioned the AA sales numbers already, but, as noted, the overall sales from one game to the next have been diminishing in the US market by all possible indications, and Ghost Trick only did around 110K copies as well. Comparatively, MvC3 did around 600K per console, and SFIV did over a million per console, so whether or not the fanbase appreciates it, the numbers justify the practice.

Now, I mean, don't misunderstand me; while I don't have any specific interest in Mega Man Legends 3, I don't begrudge anyone who does. But I DO want to see Monster Hunter Freedom 3 and Monster Hunter Frontier come stateside some day, and I would buy AA:ME2 if it came out as well without a question. But from a purely financial standpoint,

1.) The economy is still basically in the dumper and companies feel they have to be more selective about what they bring stateside when they have stockholders to report to and financial reports to turn in,

2.) Games that perform poorly, like the Ace Attorney and Monster Hunter games, are given the boot for US releases because they don't make the kind of money the company is hoping for, and

3.) Big name franchises like Resident Evil, Devil May Cry and Street Fighter are pushed hard and heavy to the forefront, which is why we're seeing Street Fighter X Tekken, DMC and THREE Resident Evil games before the end of this year ALONE,

and whether or not it's annoying or frustrating, it may well work financially for them.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2012, 08:20 
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I think that is the first time I've seen anybody give sound reasoning for anything Capcom has done in the past five years.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2012, 09:59 
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::shrug:: Well, I'm not a fan of the company's practices, believe me, but I *try* to look at every company's business practices and say "Well, I HATE so-and-so, but is there a REASON they'd do what they're doing?" and, sadly, most of the time there is. Capcom's history has always been one of excess; they find a franchise that works and BEAT IT INTO THE GROUND, and they're still doing that and it's still kind of working; Konami always farms off their less important franchises to third parties once the bloom is off the rose and hopes that the less quality products the third parties produce make money while they focus on whatever the core games are; Nintendo only releases games in the US with mass appeal and releases them spaced out like they're in a Nintendo vacuum without taking other publishers into consideration, and on and on. They may not be GOOD ideas, but sometimes they work, so.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2012, 10:22 
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And that's a good tactic that I appreciate, which is why I see no reason to dispute anything you said.
I find it both convenient and interesting though, that we still essentially agree on Capcom's tendency to beat their successful franchises of the past into the ground.

(I get kinda angsty about how many people "debates", and I wouldn't really consider this to be one. People don't seem to grasp that discussions like these should express equally the desire to state an opinion and the desire to gather more facts. I don't really keep up with gaming-news, but I like that my friends and acquaintances are willing to inform me. In a way, it could be said, it is my own little way to avoid the de-humanising of communication that is so prevalent in our computer-mediated society nowadays.)



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2012, 18:08 
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Oh, well, we're agreeing on that because it's definitively true. When Mega Man was their cash cow he starred in like fifteen games. When Street Fighter II was the money maker FIVE versions of it came out. Resident Evil saw seven or eight games in total before the end of the PS1 era. They're not at all ashamed about this because it works, whether we'd wish it didn't or not.

And I find it's hard to keep conversations based in a text medium from spiraling into decay unless you're friendly with the person you're conversing with, and sometimes even that isn't enough. Text communication loses tone, inflection, body language and even meaning of statements in some cases, leaving conversations problematic unless you've known someone for years, in many cases. In fact...

http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html

That's basically everything I would ever say, said by David Wong, on the subject.



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 Post subject: Capcom Karma
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2012, 13:11 
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I know this isn't on the subject of Capcom Karma, but thank you for that link. As someone from a pre-computer generation, quite a few of the things mentioned in that list are things I have observed changing or experienced myself over the years and know to be true.



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