David Malki ! must have an interesting resume: he lists himself as "Supreme Commander of Publicity and Promotions" for TopatoCo (an artist-direct merchandise website), former professional movie trailer editor, volunteer search and rescue pilot, freelance firearm specialist for film and television, picture-framer, beard expert, and of course, creator of Wondermark. Let's not forget his name gets an apostrophe. How many people have one of those?
What the heck is Wondermark? you may be wondering, if you are unfortunate enough to have never encountered the random, crazy comic. As Dave himself describes it, "Wondermark is created from 19th-Century woodcuts and engravings, scanned from my personal collection of old books and also from volumes in the Los Angeles Central Library. Most of the books are bound volumes of general-interest magazines such as Harper’s, Frank Leslie’s and Punch, but my collection also includes special-interest magazines such as Scientific American, Sears-Roebuck catalogs, storybooks, and primers." Basically, he takes old woodcuts and other such materials and turns them into comics, with epic results. Sometimes Dave will post a video of how he made one of the comics on his website. He also tweets about things pertaining to his comic, adventures he goes on, and random projects he takes on, like writing to government officials simply to see if they'll write back or calling people on fans' requests (for free!). (The administrator of Mercury Ice, Crystal Shards, actually got Dave to call her boyfriend on their anniversary since both of them are fans of the comics.)
Key: MI: Mercury Ice, DM!: Dave Malki !
MI: How long have you been working on Wondermark?
DM!: I made the first strips in April of 2003, and it was a casual thing for a few years. Mid-2005 was when I really started to take it seriously as a 'thing I do,' and gradually in 2007-2008 it began to deliver a substantial portion of my income. At this rate, I expect the strip to become sentient around 2019.
MI: What was your initial inspiration for the comic? Are there any unexpected places you get ideas for strips?
DM!: I've never been able to satisfactorily answer the "initial inspiration" question. One day I just sat down and made ten strips. I should probably come up with an origin story, though... How about this: I saw a motorcyclist careen off a bridge one day on my way to the library. Luckily, he landed in a homeless man's shopping cart full of balled-up plastic bags and was saved. The shopping cart was totally destroyed, but of course the homeless man didn't have insurance and he was unable to convince the motorcyclist's insurance company to reimburse him for the cart. This incident haunted me so that I began making comics to illuminate the plight of the poor. When that didn't work out, I started Wondermark instead.
As for strip ideas, they come from everywhere. I've been doing this long enough that situations I see or experience will start spinning themselves into strip ideas automatically. The key is to get out into the world, doing things and interacting with people, so that all the strips don't become about people sitting at home procrastinating, having trouble getting out of bed, and failing at productivity.
MI: The themes of political and theoretical philosophy come up occasionally in your strip. Are there any philosophical inclinations of your own that you feel you reflect in your comic?
DM!: I certainly don't mean to push any particular agenda with the strip, but if there's a common thread or perspective to the work it might be just "things are weird." The world is so unbelievably complex that in order for any of it to function, humans have to be these pattern-seeking approximation-generators, relying on habits, tunnel vision, and channels of least resistance. You see this in traditions, in cultural mores, in relationships and in the interactions between strangers. And it just takes a half-step to one side to realize how strange and arbitrary the whole scaffolding is. People are ridiculous; social constructs are haphazard at best; nobody knows anything. And yet we all get along okay for the most part, tiny little pieces in this giant global jigsaw puzzle. It's weird and wonderful and every corner and detail is fascinating.
MI: Can you describe the creative process that goes into creating your comic?
DM!: It used to be simply finding images, putting them together in interesting ways and then thinking, "What's going on in this scene?" And sometimes it's still that; I'll browse my collection of books until I find a couple images that jump out at me or seem like they could suggest a story of some type. Like building a still from some existing drama and then, in a separate creative process, trying to tune in the dialogue.
That's always a crapshoot though, because what if I can't come up with anything funny? It's aimless in a liberating but also very challenging way.
As I started to get more used to the format of the comic, I began to write more ahead of time and envision increasingly-specific scenes. Sometimes it's as simple as "Oh, this dialogue will take place between two people," and then I'll look for images of two people who seem to have approximately the right gestures and facial expressions, and maybe tweak the dialogue a bit to fit what's going on in the images.
Other times, though, I'm after something so specific that I have to construct every single detail in the strip. It sometimes requires poring through books looking for a figure in a certain pose, or the right kind of arm, face, setting or whatever. I regularly build props from scans from the 1902 Sears-Roebuck catalog, which I mine less for objects than for shapes and textures that I can combine into objects of my own design. So in those instances it's a very constructive process.
I also like to exert ownership over the process -- I like to make the work mine somehow. So almost every strip nowadays has some element of manipulation or collage in it. And, of course, the less obvious the manipulation (i.e. the more authentic the final product looks), the better job of it I've done.
MI: How much of your comic's production do you outsource? It seems that between filling orders, scanning and compiling images, and many other tasks, that would leave little time for creative thought.
DM!: I've gotten busier and busier, it's true, so I've had to figure out smart ways to allocate my time. I like to do everything, but once I've figured out a process and can judge whether or not I'm any good at it or not (or whether it's what I want to spend my time doing), I can decide whether or not I have to do every bit of it myself. I think it's important to at least start out doing it all, so you know the ins and outs of the process.
So, let's see... the last time I revamped my website, I knew what I wanted, but I didn't really know how to build it myself. So I hired Tyler Martin to build it for me, and he did a fantastic job, much better than I could have done. Win all around. I've also started to hire colorists for different things -- coloring is something I just don't quite have the right kind of brain for. There are certain things I like about coloring, but in general I just don't think I'm very good at it. So I've made the acquaintance of a number of excellent colorists and I give them work whenever I need something to look great in color. The shipping of my merchandise is now handled by TopatoCo; they're much better at it than I am and there's a strong cross-promotion effect between the different artists represented on their site, so that was a smart business decision. I have a bookkeeper who handles taxes for me and I've occasionally brought in interns to help out in the office as well.
For most people in this field, the job is entrepreneurship as much or more than it is art, and that requires a certain business acumen that I've been slowly trying to learn. But I'm also very picky about the art of it; I like having an almost-obsessive authorial control over what I produce (for good or ill) and so I have to stay involved in certain parts of the process. For example, I find that scanning my own images, while it's a pain, helps me mentally index them in a way that I wouldn't if someone else did it. So I think there's a good balance between bringing in help for things that I can't do well, and concentrating my own energies on the things that I can do well.
Also, freeing up time by outsourcing allows me to tackle ever-more ambitious projects. I find that obligations expand to fill the time available. So I'm not shipping my own stuff anymore, but I'm making more books, I'm experimenting with more complex strips, I'm podcasting, I'm working with TopatoCo's other clients to develop new products. There's always something to do.
MI: You have mentioned that, as a matter of principle, you hold yourself and your work to a very high standard. Does that become exhausting? What do you do in dry periods, if you do have them?
DM!: There is sometimes a feeling of obligation that can be hard to work under. The solution is both easy and difficult, and it's to change inputs. Go somewhere, read something, immerse the mind in something different and novel. It's easy because I love doing all that -- I love reading, I enjoy traveling, I can people-watch all day. It's difficult because it's tough to permit myself the time to slough off other obligations and turn down the need to be productive at all costs.
I also like to think that I've trained myself, in a way. I respect artists who only produce work when they feel it's up to standard, and don't hold themselves to a schedule for the sake of a schedule. I completely understand that impulse. I, however, can't work that way. I would never get anything done, because the bar for how good something has to be to make up for the wait would keep growing higher the longer I spent on it.
As painful as it sometimes is to have a rigid update schedule, I like to think that I've trained myself to perform on cue just through sheer repetition. My brain knows it's not going to sleep until it comes up with something, you know? There's no room for compromise. And you get more work done that way, which means that in the long run, you get a lot of decent work done just by dint of volume. And that training just comes from doing a lot of work for a long time.
MI: In this economy, it seems many luxury goods are rapidly falling in popularity, whereas some (such as movies) famously improve during tough times. In which of those categories do you think comic collections such as your own fall, if either?
DM!: Sure, this is what some people call the "lipstick purchase," which is a very small indulgence that makes people feel a little bit better. I think comics can fall under that umbrella. Webcomics in particular have a couple legs up on other print media as well: we're here for free, so people can enjoy the work even if they can't afford to buy anything; often there's opportunity for the author to establish personal connections with the reader, so the reader knows that purchases (for example) are a way to show support for the author directly; because they're free, people can develop a familiarity with the work so they know what they're getting with something like a book, and thus may be more willing to purchase it or give it as a gift. Books of comic strips make tremendous gifts, and even if someone won't necessarily want a book for themselves, they might easily buy a book for a friend's birthday. By virtue of creating something unique and interesting, we are helping people look cool to their friends.
So yeah, I think webcomics are in a good position even given the vagaries of the economy. If someone's going to only spend money once a month, say, it just becomes our job to be their absolute favorite thing that month. It's an interesting challenge.
MI: What are the best and hardest parts of being a comic artist?
DM!: The best part is building friendships and relationships with, and learning from and being inspired by, fans, colleagues and other creators. Hanging out with artists at a convention, reading emails from fans, or building long-term friendships with peers who're (deliberately or not) always challenging me to up my game is tremendously energizing, and it inspires me to do my very best work so as to live up to their respect.
The hardest part is doing it in a vacuum. This job involves a lot of sitting alone in a room. I find that when I have an intern in the office, just being able to talk with them and bounce ideas around, to say nothing of actually having to keep them busy all day, keeps me on point and productive and creative. Staring at a computer by myself, or (before I had an outside office) not leaving the house for days on end, is draining. This is why I recommend a rigorous socialization program for all creative people, by force if necessary (because they're not going to want to crawl out of that rut, given the choice).
MI: While you are certainly a very successful cartoonist, because of the nature of your medium there will always be limits to your access for the general population. Do you consider yourself an independent artist, or do you feel you're moving into what is considered "mainstream"?
DM!: I'm not sure what "mainstream" means. I'm writing this on an airplane, and looking around I see a hundred people who represent a pretty broad cross-section of the population. This isn't a crowd that you'll find at a comic convention, or even a ball game or restaurant. It's a totally random smattering, like you might find in a traffic jam or on jury duty. This is probably the "mainstream."
And looking around, do I think I can make my work relevant to all of them? I'd love it if any of them became interested, but I can't go after them. It's too wide a net. I don't speak all those different social languages. I don't relate to all those people. And the stuff we see that's designed to appeal to the mainstream is usually pretty uninteresting.
I think my job is just to make work that I find interesting, and the people who also find it interesting will stick around. I can't second-guess the audience and I can't talk down to them. I just have to do my thing, because it's the only thing I know how to do. And if, in time, a critical mass of folks come to like it, hooray! I'm glad of it. But I don't really know how to work in a way to pursue that.
And I've tried that, actually, with other ventures and at other jobs -- spending my creativity in pursuit of some audience or client's goal that wasn't my own. I can't do it. I'm just not interested enough in that to do very good work.
MI: Are there any comedians or entertainers you find particularly hilarious, and if so, do you aspire to reach that level or simply enjoy their work as it is?
DM!: I'm inspired by seeing other cartoonists, writers, comedians who've seen some success, because I like learning from their approaches. I'll never be as successful as some, of course, and that's because my strengths lie with different, perhaps less-populist talents. But I like to try analyzing what they're doing (as much of it as I know about anyway) to see if there's anything I can learn. Is there some approach I'm missing? How can I reach a similar crowd? And of course if there's someone successful whose style I think is similar to or compatible with my own, that's always very encouraging, because it means there's an audience out there.
MI: Many artists' creations get better or worse as time goes on. What do you feel is the direction of the quality of your work?
DM!: Man, if I wasn't constantly getting better at this I would get really discouraged really fast.
The challenge is fun -- constantly trying to do new things, make it more interesting, make it more clever. When I plateau I get bored. I'm always trying to make it better than it was yesterday. I don't succeed every day, but I think in the aggregate the trend-line takes an encouraging shape.
MI: In previous interviews, you have mentioned several times that you're getting older. What do you feel your legacy will be, after you are no longer producing comics? On a secondary note, is that important to you at all, are are you happy to be doing a job you enjoy for people that appreciate it, regardless of what the future may hold?
DM!: I'm not terribly locked into the idea of doing "comics" for the rest of my life; I don't have deep roots in the medium the way some people do. I like comics fine, and I like what I do, but I'm most interested in making "things people enjoy", whether or not they happen to look like comics. My whole life I've been drawn to making things for people to enjoy, so I imagine I'll keep doing it for as long as people still enjoy it.
That being said, it's a job that comes with certain pressures that I'm sure only intensify with success. Maybe I'd like retiring to an idyllic house by a lake and learning to fish, I don't know. I do know that right now, I get restless if I stop making things for too long, but I'm not THAT old. Maybe I'll wean myself from that when I go blind from staring at a computer all day.
MI: If you introduce yourself to new people in your daily life as the creator of Wondermark, do they generally recognize the strip, or your name?
DM!: Haha, no. No way. Webcomics are a tiny micro-niche of a micro-niche. That's fine, though, because it's encouraging to know that the ceiling for growth is basically unlimited.
There have been times when people have told me, "Hey my roommate showed me this crazy comic strip and I was like, I know that guy!" or whatever, but even though it does happen every now and then, it also DOESN'T happen millions of times every day.
MI: How do you feel about the public aspects of your work? For instance, does correspondence with fans electronically and at conventions get tiresome, or do you enjoy it?
DM!: I love it. There is nothing more encouraging than knowing that you are touching people's lives and making their day a little more wonderful. I don't think I would do it if nobody cared about it.
MI: What do you feel are the prospects of a young aspiring cartoonist? Should he, like you, first have a day job from which he can start his artistic career, or do you think it would be better to devote himself to his art from a young age?
DM!: I think it's important to be able to fail safely. First ventures are almost always rocky, and failure with no net underneath can be disastrous. I understand the impulse to force oneself into a position where it's success-or-else, but I worry that that tends to encourage a lot of navel-gazing about What My Art Means and How To Monetize My Traffic Stats and so on. Keep the job, draw comics at night and lose the job when you don't have time for it anymore because your comics are taking up too much time and making you too much money. Don't lose your house because you wanted to be an Artist.
I also think that not having to rely on one's art for one's income, especially early on, can lead to more adventurous art. I would actually advise disregarding a cautious approach if there's nothing to lose if it fails. And I'm happy that I toiled in obscurity for the first few years of the strip, for two reasons: I didn't know anything about "webcomics", and thus didn't have any expectations or opportunities for discouragement; and by the time people DID start to pay attention, I had kind of figured out my game and had a decent body of work behind me already. Nobody was there to lose interest watching me fumble around.
MI: Lastly, what advice would you give to any aspiring comic artists?
DM!: Never underestimate the power of seriously good work. Nothing else -- no marketing campaign, no glossy paper, no celebrity endorsement or "foolproof" business plan -- will do more for your career than just making good work that grabs people and doesn't let go. And if your work isn't doing that yet, keep pushing yourself to make it better until it does. Sometimes it takes a long time, and if you look back and get embarrassed by your earlier work, you know you're on the right track.
Also, don't feel pressured to do something that you think people will like. There are enough bland comics out there. Do something daring. Break the format. Use the web to your advantage. You don't have to moan over being the five-millionth best generic cartoonist in the world if you can be the absolute best at a medium that you invent instead.
Learn a trade. Go work with your hands doing something. Get away from the computer a little and have a life.
Don't be afraid to periodically take a hard look at what works and what doesn't, and adapt accordingly. The only boxes you're stuck in are those of your own creation.
Finally, if it ain't rewarding (for whatever definition of that that has meaning for you), I hereby give you permission to quit. Nobody'll think less of you. Seriously. Don't give yourself an ulcer over this nonsense!
Overall, Mercury Ice was very impressed with David Malki !. He answered our questions clearly and with interesting details. During the interview process, he was very friendly and communicated with us regularly. His art isn't the only thing to commend here. Please check out his comics and support his site. He certainly has our vote for coolest comic artist!
This interview was conducted by Crystal Shards and thexdilemma of Mercury Ice. If you are a guest viewing this, please take the time to register.
